Stories that cut through borders, fear, and silence. In this episode, Marcus sits down with Jason De León to explore the human realities behind migration, smuggling, and survival. Through raw honesty and years of fieldwork, Jason brings forward the voices and moments most people never witness, revealing how hope, courage, and impossible decisions shape every journey north. This conversation pulls you beyond the headlines and into the lives that hold the true weight of our global migration crisis.

Jason De León is a MacArthur Fellow, award-winning author, and Director of the Cotsen Institute of Archaeology at UCLA. He leads the Undocumented Migration Project, a research and arts collective bringing visibility to the human cost of global migration. His book Soldiers and Kings won the 2024 National Book Award for Nonfiction, and he is also a professor of Anthropology and Chicana/o and Central American Studies.

Episode highlights:

(0:00) Intro
(2:14) Creating work from love, not awards
(8:48) Facing danger and learning who to trust
(13:19) What true access to someone’s story requires
(15:44) The emotional cost of carrying others’ lives
(20:31) What people misunderstand most about smugglers
(25:16) How the U.S. relies on migrant labor every day
(31:16) Why simple policy “fixes” don’t solve anything
(42:02) The Undocumented Migration Project
(44:12) How work and fatherhood helped him heal his own trauma
(50:25) Jason’s writing process and what teaches his kids about purpose
(56:24) Outro